The Reliability of RN Numbers

You will see an RN number on most of the clothing out there. It’s a good way to date things. 

But IS it?

There are a lot of reasons to be careful using them.

If it has in Roman numerals chiseled into the item, it should be in a museum.

...just kidding…

First, the math:  I’ve always hated math and I’ve gone my entire life without once using algebra, so WHY DID I HAVE TO BE TORTURED WITH THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL??

…but I digress…

There is special math to use with an RN number.

The first RN number was issued in 1959.  That number was 13670.

So you would take the RN number on your garment and subtract 13670.  There is an average of 2365 RN’s issued per year, so you then divide your number by 2365.  The number you come out with is added to 1959 and that is supposed to be the year your garment was made.

…but a lot of times, it is NOT! 

Check out this dress:

Look at the details: 

~~rayon that is slightly distressed-looking  
~~tea length 
~~HUGE shoulder pads, shaped like half a pie (or a capital D) 
~~REALLY loose in the bodice and the skirt is tight 
 

How totally and completely 1980s is this dress?

The RN # is 42435.  So let’s do the math:

42435 – 13670 =  28765.  28765 divided by 2365 = 12.163 (so let’s say 13)

1959 + 13 = 1971 !!!!

There is no way this dress is early 70s.  So then you would have to check out different ways to date it.  The company (Incite) is nowhere to be found.  It was never trademarked or registered for trademark.

So we have to go by the fabric, the styling, and those tell-tale shoulder pads.

Plus it helps if you were around in the 80's to see this fashion phenomenon and properly identify it.

I have a basic, classic button down shirt from the catalog company known as “Tweeds”.  The first time their label was ever used was 1987.  The RN number on my shirt is 72830.

72830 – 13670 = 59160, divided by 2365 = 25.014.  1959 + 25 = 1984.

I got the shirt around 1993/1994.  Do you see how you have to be careful?

So what is an RN# supposed to be?  To make it really simple, let’s just say that was when the pattern for the garment was created. 
  

Once I had a corset that was styled SO 1950’s.  Even the fabric was 50's corset fabric.  The RN number put it right around 1959/1960.  However here was a smooth Tyvek tag on the inside and remember what I said about smooth Tyvek?  (maybe you should go back to my “When labels are a good thing” –post? https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=8676381335238508238#editor/target=post;postID=6784840758516237596;onPublishedMenu=allposts;onClosedMenu=allposts;postNum=6;src=postname)  
These were from the late 80's to the present!  So this was created using the vintage pattern and even the vintage fabrics, but it was made much more recently.

There are CA#’s too, but you cannot devise a formula for dating from them.  Those are on clothing from Canada.  I’ll get to WPL#’s someday, but right now I need another nap…

What’s new in my shop is showing up there on the right of the screen>>>>>>>>

Vintage Fashion Trademarks

This is about trademarks on labels in vintage fashion.

 

Anyone who loves vintage and wants ONLY true vintage should be familiar with trademarks on labels.

I am amazed at what sellers of vintage sell AS vintage but they are so WRONG about their dating.  (I could go on and on about the 80’s and how so many eras were reproduced back then and someday I will).

It should be a “given” that sellers know all about what they are selling, but too many of them don’t .  Here’s how you can be smarter than the seller.

Be a Vintage Fashion Detective.

The best site for trademarks is called trademarkia.com (link below).

The only thing is, you have to know how to use it.

First does the item listing SHOW the label?  It’s not enough to mention them.  They must be shown!  Many companies use several different logos during their history of production.  Some use only one and then go out of business.   So you need to see the label to know if and when it was registered.

If it has an “R” or a “TM” next to the logo, you know it has been officially trademarked or registered for a trademark.

So go to

http://www.trademarkia.com/?gclid=CKjGteLmjrUCFQyZ4Aod-0IArw

Then put in the name exactly as it appears on the label.  It’s picky, so if it doesn’t come up the first time, you may have to enter it in different ways (like adding all the dots and dashes if they exist on the logo, but it’s not case-sensitive)

NOTE:  if there is no TM or R by the name, the label could be from before it was trademarked or registered, or was never TM’d or registered at all.  Sometimes you will be sent straight to a page where it tells you how to get a trademark for whatever item you are searching.

That means it's time to give it up and find another way to date your item…..

Sometimes, certain names are used over and over so there may be 40 pages or more of that name, but in different logos and fonts.  Be patient, look through all of them until you find a matching logo.  Sometimes they don’t have photos of some logos , but it will tell you what the company sells. 

Like, if you looking for women’s clothing, you can skip the sellers of baked goods or automobile parts….

When you find it, click on the logo (or lack of one) then scroll down.  It will tell you when this logo was first used, but not official yet.  A lot of companies use logos that are not officially trademarked until they apply for it.

This is very important because the date it was first used (no officially registered trademark) doesn’t mean the item is that old!  As a fellow member of the Vintage Fashion Guild once stated, “Beware of the common mistake of confusing “oldest it can be” with actual age.”

So then scroll back up and check the filing date and most important, the registration date.  On top of the page you will see if it was renewed or cancelled.  If it was cancelled, you would know that the item can be no newer than the cancellation date.

OK.  This was informative but not as entertaining as I would like it to be.  So for once "school is in".

All this can be time-consuming but many find this research is big fun.  It pays to be knowledgeable about what you are buying.  Imagine going to a yard sale or an estate sale and when the seller tries to tell you that the dress is from the 1940s, you can throw it back at them and tell them you know better because:

There are lots of other ways to tell the age!

What are the shoulder pads like?

Are they triangles?  40s to 50s

Are they shaped like a half of a pie and really thick?  80s

Are they flat triangles with a rounded edge?  70s.

Shoulder pads were not in style through the 60s.

Zipper:

Metal zipper on the side?  30s 40s to early 50s

Metal zipper in the back?  Mid 50s to mid 60s

Acrylic or nylon zippers?  Mid 60s to present

“Invisible” zippers?  70s to present

So there you go.  You are on your way to being a Vintage Fashion Detective of the highest order!

The Multi-Strand Necklace

You’ve seen these before.  Any lover of vintage knows them well.  Made mostly in the 1950s and 1960s, they sometimes have matching clip-on earrings.  They come in every color there is and I have quite the collection myself.  I find them to be popular these days.  I have lots of them in my shop.  Here's a few:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/LunaJunctionVintage/search?search_query=multistrand&order=date_desc&view_type=list&ref=shop_search

These were made back then for “Ladies Who Lunch”.  They were worn with dresses and skirt suits and were the height of vintage fashion.  They were seen in offices and at luncheons and special occasions as well as in church!

To wear them that way these days is………(you guessed it)

……BORRRR-RING.

Of course your own personal style is your own and however you want to wear yours is up to you. 

But if you like being less predictable here are some suggestions:

1).   They can add a lot of style to a plain white T-shirt, worn casually:

2.)  Again, casually, with a buttoned-to-the-neck button down shirt (model is wearing an orange one and a brown one together) :

3).  My personal favorite is wearing two or three at a time, in different colors, layering the beads and keeping them close to the neck  (model is wearing a red one, a blue one and a black one) :

4).  ….or not close to the neck.

5.)  If they have a fancy clasp, wear one backwards.
....and for goodness sake, they do not have to match what you are wearing! "Matchy-matchy" is no longer a good thing.... 

These all work for all seasons.  You can even do black and orange for Halloween, red and green…

….....oh you know what I mean, right?

Hey, just think about it…

A SIMPLE VINTAGE GOWN AND A FEDORA

The new thing at Luna Junction today is a very simple gown.  Many would just say it’s boring.  Of course it had to be styled 2 ways.  Once for the traditionalists:

And then there’s MY way:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/203731682/evening-gown-vintage-1960s-fall-formal?ref=shop_home_active_3

This is much more interesting, don’t you think?  

A fedora is not the type of hat you would think of putting with a gown like this.  If I had a nice sparkly infinity scarf, I would have added that too.   The effect makes one take a second look at the gown, no?

Speaking of fedoras, the one on the model is vintage, a stingy brim, but I have several in my shop, some with their original hatboxes.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/179225483/vintage-fedora-mens-1950s-grey-felt-hat?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/176209800/vintage-fedora-original-hat-box-1950s?

 https://www.etsy.com/listing/183361075/vintage-fedora-mens-70s-wool-fedora-size?

This brings up that whole thing about when a woman should wear a fedora, because heaven knows everyone is wearing them right now, from teenagers to….well….women of a certain age, and it can get redundant and predictable.

*GASP*  

I hate that word....

......"predictable"................THAT word.

I wear the one in the photos above, but these things are just getting around too much, so I am really picky about what I pair it with.

One’s first (BORRRR-rring) thought is to pair it with something frilly. 

I don’t do “frilly”.

How about wearing one with something Asian?  Not a cheongsam dress, but maybe a kimono jacket with a tube top or tank top under it??  

...and pants, don't forget pants! 

Or shorts. 

Or capris.

Maybe an Asian jacket with a Mandarin collar?? 

They look swell with a sleeveless Asian blouse, too (or one with sleeves).

Wearing it with the right military look is a bit unexpected. 

Then there’s the old "long-Boho-top" over flowy wide leg pants.

A Mandarin collar brocade vest and skinny jeans?

PEOPLE, IT'S BORING OUT THERE!  Lobby against "predictable".

(who said that?!!!) 

OK, I'll calm down.    

Hey, young people can get away with so much more, but so many young girls let the hat wear them.   Making it look like you were born with that hat on not easy....

Live "outside the box".  Make it your new address....

Be a Stickler

One of my fellow vintage-clothing-sellers on Etsy, Liz, from PassionateFlea, put a note about me in her (equally amusing) blog:

http://thepassionateflea.blogspot.com/

She called me a “stickler” for getting dates right on what’s in my shop.

I love that word.

I want everyone to be a stickler, so I try my best to teach vintage clothing-buyers/wearers/lovers how not to get stiffed.

I am a member of the Vintage Fashion Guild.   (I think it took me 4 tries over a year)  In the interim, I just kept learning and learning until I got this stuff right.  This kind of validation was always important to me and I thought I had it down pat, but I learned that I didn’t.  (Actually we never do, there’s always something to learn out there….)

So nowadays I do not list anything until I know exactly how old it is, and I’m able to substantiate that if I’m ever challenged.

There is so much info on the Internet to help with this, but some of it is not reliable.  You want reliable?  Go to the Vintage Fashion Guild site:

 http://vintagefashionguild.org/

You can check labels there:

http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/

Learn about fabrics:

http://vintagefashionguild.org/fabric-resource/

…and a lot more.

There are so many ways to validate vintage.  I’ll eventually get to all of them.  This is just a start.

HALLOWEEN THOUGHTS

Want something unique that no one else has?  Vintage clothing can be a great inspiration, a great start-up for your imagination.  There are several items to inspire at LunaJunction.  I have a lot more coming in the next few weeks.

Oh look!  Here comes one now:

Halloween Idea - Vintage Satin Gown - 1940s Green Satin Costume - As Is - Small Size

https://www.etsy.com/listing/203461532/halloween-idea-vintage-satin-gown-1940s?ref=shop_home_active_1

I meant for that to be a little creepy....

The Big Welcome

Welcome to (yet another) blog about vintage clothing.  I assure you, this one will be different for reasons stated below but first this:

“What’s with that name?”  (you may be asking)

  The name of my shop in Etsy is LunaJunction.  When I was about to start my vintage clothing shop on Etsy, it was great fun trying to get a good name.  So I thought of all kinds of things and decided I love the word “Luna”.  Once, I found a Luna moth in my yard.   It was the most beautiful moth I had ever seen.   (yes they are nocturnal and I found it in the daytime, as it was injured)

  So what word do you put with “Luna”?  I came up with “Junction” because my shop was going to be an assortment of decades of vintage clothing, vintage jewelry and vintage accessories, all at this “junction”.  Plus there was something celestial about that word too.  So that’s the history behind the name….

BUT:

There’s this band in Ireland.  Same name.  Oh, I’m sure they (and their fans) know about me like I know about them.  There's no competition here.  This is not about music. 

Two off-the-wall words. 

Go figure…..

“OK SO WHAT’S WITH THIS BLOG?” (you may be asking)

  This blog is for those who prefer to run from any clothing that’s (I hate this word) “trending”.  This is for those with eclectic tastes in fashion and like to dabble in vintage clothing, vintage jewelry and vintage accessories because it’s something different.  However, this blog is for the most virulent Fashion Rebels!  It’s about vintage clothing (for men as well as women) but it’s not about THAT you wear it, it’s about HOW you wear it.

I often say “Luna likes a mix-up.”  I say this because vintage fashion is one great step toward having a style that is all your own, but are you going to go overboard with a 1940s look, doing that hair, that make-up and those accessories?  (which is still better than being “trendy”) or are you going to mix it with modern-day pieces that lead to a  much more creative look that is all your own? 

Bottom line?

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?????

  At this Junction, (see what I did there?) I’m going to share some personal info:

  I’M vintage.  I’m a Baby Boomer.  Yes….I would be considered a “SENIOR”.  (Oh man, that sounded so much better when I was I high school…).  Hey, just remember this:  My generation of ex-hippies is not your mother’s “old folks next door”.

  I still like to have a singular sense of style, all the while keeping it age-appropriate (not easy).  I can still turn heads when I’m zipping through the sidewalks of New York, which is saying a lot.  In my hometown here in the very south of New Jersey…..it just gets weird, but I’m used to it. 

Yet I persist!

  So right now, I’m going to leave you with a link to my shop on Etsy (below).   My model (she of a thousand wigs)  is styled in many different ways, many of them with an eye to the mix-up.   (and of course, I do the styling on these vintage looks)

https://www.etsy.com/listing/161547384/long-jacket-vintage-light-coat-steampunk?ref=shop_home_active_6

Future posts will concern different ways to mix it up and some vintage clothing philosophies (not necessarily to adopt but to consider).  Plus I want to share some of my own little secrets….

  LunaJunction Vintage is one home of vintage dresses, vintage gowns, vintage blouses, vintage sweaters, vintage tops, vintage skirts, vintage vests, vintage pants, vintage aprons, vintage outfits, vintage suits, vintage rompers, vintage jumpsuits, vintage capes, vintage shawls, vintage jewelry, vintage accessories, including vintage hats, vintage shoes, vintage gloves, vintage purses, vintage scarves, vintage eyewear (real vintage cat eye glasses, vintage rhinestone glasses, vintage sunglasses), vintage coats, vintage jackets, vintage lingerie, vintage sunsuits, men’s vintage jackets, vintage cuff links, vintage ties clip, vintage hats, vintage coats, vintage shirts and some miscellaneous vintage kitsch along with some other things you may love but have never before considered.

I have NOT left out Steampunk clothing and Halloween ideas for original costumes….

 https://www.etsy.com/shop/LunaJunction?ref=hdr_shop_menu

OK, now I'm really tired.....

Sunny